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Level 2 (enrolled nurses)
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26 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 20:27
Do any of you have level 2 nurses working with you? Would it be possible for an enrolled nurse to be the lead nurse in charge of 2 level 1 nurses?
What limitations regarding practice do level 2 nurses have?

1566 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 20:34
sorry i didn't think we had enrolled nurses any more or have i missed something this week when i was away

26 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 20:43
Ha! So did I. But one turned up for an interview today! Really great candidate but I'm concerned. She didn't mention that she was level 2. We noticed it on her CV after she'd gone. She is working as a PN now but in a large practice with lots of level 1 nurses. We need this nurse to be the lead nurse!!

159 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 20:51
There is a scope of professional practice for level 2 nurses that the nmc have published and they state that they are still competent, registered nurses and no limitations should be placed on them.

See: http://www.nmc-uk.org/Nurses-and-midwives/Advice-by-topic/A/Advice/Nursing-homes-and-second-level-registered-nurses/

Hope that helps although not seen a level 2 nurse for ages!

1059 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 20:57
well thanks for answering 1 of my unanswered questions lol, i always wondered what level 1 and level 2 nurses were i thought it was if you had a degree or a diploma. And now i know.x

613 Posts

Posted:  01-Mar-2011 22:36
I used to be a level 2, enrolled nurse and did my conversion course in 2000, I was told if I did not convert then I would be out of a job as EN's were being phased out ! I still know several EN's who did not convet and are still working on band 5 without any of the stress of studying, it does not seem fair !!!,


757 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 07:43
We have an EN working with us she mainly does phlebotomy and does anything the HCA's do spiro, dressings health checks bp's etc. Has not updated though so can be a bit limited and we have to keep an eye out for overstepping capabilities. Having said that is really good and patients love her.

Do I think that an EN should be lead nurse NO. Otherwise what did we all do our training for. I remember in the old days a EN was a good hands on nurse who could not progress whereas the SRN went on to become sister/ managers. That is why the training was shorter with less entry qualifications.

45 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 12:42

I trained as an EN (since converted)and I disagree with with you they can progress and some are very experienced.
I had a tutor who trained us to level one standards it was very intense. [:)][:)]


2 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 13:41 Log in to like this post
I agree with nurseterry. I too was a former enrolled nurse and very proud of it. I knew my limitations and that was why I converted in 1992. However what enrolled nurse experience gave me was a skill for compassion and holistic nursing which some newer RGNs might like to put that into practice! I have 30 years nursing experience starting at the bottom as an auxillary nurse. The reason because I didn't have the acaedemic qualifications required. However since then I have number of diplomas (job related) a degree in primary health nursing, just completing independent nurse prescribing and about to come to the end of my second year MSc in Advance Practice. I have a wealth of experience and am pleased to have started at the bottom. I have met many a SRN/RGN who have qualified and climbed the ladder very quickly who lack the sensitivity and hands on good old fashioned nursing and compassion required to give holistic care. On the other hand I have also met some SRN who have qualified and are like dead wood but still manager to be on the top of their grade/band at sister level - where is the fairness in that? It is also unfair to label a title and this EN has obviously come across very well in interview. All qualified nurses know that they should be aware of their limitations, are accountable and must abide by the NMC code of conduct. Enrolled nurses are still around and play an important part of the nursing profession. I would rather have my enrolled nurse training than be a new qualified nurse of today's generation!

Sorry rant over - but we should value the good nurses we have.



45 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 14:03
Good for you Karen I also have over 37yrs experience and agree with you, would rather have my enrolled nurse training than be a new qualified nurse of today's generation. We were taught to be more compassionate and goocd hands on nurses.

You rant away, does you good to have a good moan xx


26 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 16:26
Thanks people!
I too was an EN but was told to get my level 1 or no jobs would be available to me. So I worked very hard and got my degree. Just makes you think that if I hadn't bothered I could still be employed as a practice nurse on the same money!
EN training was the best, and I've never regretted opting for EN training. It's just a tiny bit galling to give my job to someone who hasn't bothered to convert.

583 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 16:42
The En's that started training the same time as me had the same training up until the point they qualified just didnt do the final year which was management and a med and surgical spec ward i think (long time ago!). Remember the first shift where my newly qualified EN best friend was in charge of the shift...talk about the blind leading the blind!! Cant say i necessarily agree that EN's were the hands on guys with all the people skills while the staff nurses weren't. You got the good and you got the not so good same as with all levels of nursing. But that aside, cant see why an experienced EN cant be a lead nurse, if her experience and more recent quals are relevent.

148 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 17:50
I too was an enrolled nurse and the nurse manager at our surgery- have since converted and got my degree, stood down as manager as absolutely hated it, I think it depends on the individual although I would say that in my experience there are still some level 1 nurses that look down their noses at EN's - sorry if that is not politically correct :(

1022 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 21:45
cardiology - I have never been an enrolled nurse- but so agree with your wise words x

Welcome to the forum by the way!

1852 Posts

Posted:  02-Mar-2011 23:02
Yes welcome cardiology - and I agree with your entire rant. [:)]But I do believe that it is the personality of the individual nurse, regardless of training/qualification status, whether they nurse with their hearts. You can't teach a person to care, you can only teach them to do, IMO.


393 Posts

Posted:  03-Mar-2011 00:07
So right, Lala. Back in the old days (when Florence was probably still alive) I rocked up for the Christmas eve night shift on A&E as a 2nd year student nurse. I think there was a bit of a flu epidemic and the weather was pretty much like the last 2 winters. The staffing complement was little old me, an SEN who had been on A&E for a long time and a bank SRN (It was a small hospital A&E). I tell you, that SEN was a star! It was chaos and reception was a war zone but she just got on with it and managed the department with ease. She was, and is, the reason I am the nurse I am today. Would love to know what happened to her...she may recognize herself on here?!!

757 Posts

Posted:  03-Mar-2011 08:01
I am very sorry if my comments upset some of you it was not my intension. I was commenting on an EN working with us and she has not converted or done any udateing since training but keeps her registration.
I also work with another EN who has done her conversion and several diploma's and is absolutly brilliant and I would have no problem if she was lead nurse.

My comments were directed toward's EN's who have done no further training / updating at all.

I was not talking about any nurses who have updated further trained etc. I agree with Karen's comments. I had the misfortune to train when "diploma" nurses as they were called then started training and this was a speeded up 2 year course for SRN's and most of these were not hands on and did not want to touch a bed pan let alone a patient!!!!!!!

Sorry again for any offence

I really must learn to not post when tired.

583 Posts

Posted:  03-Mar-2011 08:24
Im really confused now, agree with everything every body has said, but why would your surgery consider employing ANY nurse for a lead nurse job if they have only done the bare minimum to maintain their registration. She must have been qualified for a long time to be an EN.

757 Posts

Posted:  03-Mar-2011 08:28
Sorry now seem to have confused you

We have 2 EN's

One who has never updated and works mainly as phlebotomist.

The other has converted etc. she is a PN but NOT a lead nurse. I was saying I would not have a problem if she were.

1637 Posts

Posted:  03-Mar-2011 10:23
There are still ENs about my friend is one and is employed with 3 others. In the 70s when I started pupil nurses (ENs)had a total of 8 weeks in nursing school over 2 years and were very rarely in left in charge. Student nurses (SRN/RGN) had a total of 32 weeks in nursing school over 3 years. When a student nurse becama a 3rd year she was on the off duty as leading over the ENs. Most I worked with were very hard working and dependable. However I think I would have a problem with ENs leading over RGNs in todays environment but that is my personal opinion. I think in general bitterness would escalate eventually.
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